Recommended European Tilt Turn Options with Thinnest Site Line
We had originally specced our project with Yaro UPVC but were considering options with smaller frames and similar high performance windows. One option is the Tanner Vitra.
The Vitra frame is 3.3” while the Yaro frame (currently specified product) is 4.6”. A difference of 1.3” in frame width. This equates to 2.6” more glass in both height and width (2 x frame dim.). This narrower frame will significantly change the feeling of openness one gets from a window of equal size. Of course the Vitra is more expensive and we’re estimating about 45% more. Performance-wise they’re very similar.
Can anyone recommend a good, well-supportrf (in New England, specifically Vermont) imported European window closer to the Vitra but not as expensive? I found Bieber Futura out of NY but that’s even more expensive AFAIK. I haven’t had a chance to see if the Tanner Lauda is any cheaper. Does Optiwin have East Coast distributors/support – maybe the Alu2Wood – I assume the 3Wood wouldn’t save any money.
I also heard about Mavrik (formerly Prossimo) but haven’t had a chance to reach out to them to talk about their options.
Thanks!
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I also just remembered a local builder recommended Klearwall, feedback?
Have you looked into Intus windows? I just measured mine and the frame is about 3 1/4" wide. Great local support from Performance Building Supply in Portland Maine.
Stephen, unfortunately Intus is no longer selling to the residential market. PBS is now carrying a comparable line, though.
JM, Yaro's uPVC line, using Shuco frames, is about as low-profile as any higher-performing uPVC frame. You do understand that insulation and trim can (and should) cover most of the exterior frame, leaving just the sash and a thin edge of jamb exposed? Or is your concern the width of the sash components? For a durable, long-lasting, triple-glazed uPVC window I would want beefy frames.
If you want thinner frames and are not as concerned with performance, look at Mathews Bros "Clara Starrett" line, or Paradigm Window's triple glazed line. Both are made in Maine.
Michael the Tanner Vitra offers similar performance to the Yaro with thinner frames as I said:
http://www.tannerwindows.com/performance.html
It's significantly more expensive so I'm looking for other options at a lower pricepoint.
JM, many European wood windows have similar, low profiles. You could talk to Ecocor about their line of low-profile wood windows: http://cdm-drewno.pl/en/produkty/okna-thermlight-6/. I don't know if they would sell you a window package but they might. Or you could try to find a local rep for this company: http://www.m-sora.si/en/windows/wood-windows. Wood windows generally cost more than PVC windows, of course.
Can anyone comment on Logic Windows and/or the new Alpen Tyrol compared to popular European uPVC options? I'm not as concerned about the low profile factor anymore.
J M,
I ordered Logic windows from Pinnacle Windows in Maine. Haven't receive them yet but I visited Pinnacle in person and got to play with one there. They seem to be made of really high quality. As I understand it, the Logic frames are made in Germany and then shipped to a facility in Pennsylvania where they then install the glass. U-factors are comparable to Intus (once you establish a level playing field with how Europe and US calculate u-factors). Wait times are very short however- ours were ready in 3-4 weeks. (They were actually ready too fast- I had to tell them to hold off a couple of weeks) Pinnacle has superb service too. I highly recommend them.
I'll report back once windows are installed.
I've spec'd Logic windows on a few jobs now and have seem them installed on others. They are high quality, very similar to Intus. Performance-wise the only major difference is a stainless steel glass spacer instead of the better-insulating plastic ones that Intus has, but it hardly makes a difference on performance.
Michael,
On the interior are the window hinges for the tilt turn concealed or visible? I saw two types of Klearwall yesterday - Passiv Alucad (wood) with concealed and the budget High Performance PVC model (no longer listed in their catalog) with visible hinges. If the hinges are visible are they painted or silver?
Thanks!
We are building a house in Marine zone. We have been working with Zola windows and their Aluminima line. The frame width is about 1.5”. Incredible sight lines with an almost invisible frame. I am not sure how they compare price wise with the other manufacturers you mentioned. Check them out at http://www.zolawindows.com.
JM, the ones I'm familiar with all have a discreet but visible hinge, available in a range of finishes. I have not used the Passiv Aluclad units yet but have modeled them for a project we were trying to get to Passive House levels; they seem like a high quality product. Most of the European PVC options are similar, as is Logic.
Another question, does anyone know a window manufacturer that does a near passive or passive level custom windows similar to a lift and slide door only for a window application or are those too wide to fit in a window opening? Alternatively we can just do a fixed in the center and two side tilt turns.
Alpen fiberglass only come in casement and awning but have very thin profiles.
I found this image, but it's from a company in India. Sure looks like a lift and slide window
JM, I don't know why lift and slide hardware wouldn't work on a "short door," aka a window, but there may be height limitations. Window companies typically purchase hardware from third party fabricators so there are probably only a few types of lift-and-slide hardware to choose from. The hardware will likely make for a more expensive window than one with standard hardware. I would ask the window reps you are talking with.
I found some companies that can do it, but it's more expensive and the three panel design I posted above seems to make more sense for various reasons. I'm leaning back towards Yaro Aluclad PVC as I'm not sold on foil coated PVC for coloring - what experience have others had with painted, foil, and/or aluclad windows? Yaro for example says if you do foil coated PVC the max size is 30% smaller (I assume because as you get past a certain size expansion and contraction can damage the foil coating?
Can anyone offer feedback on Unilux Isostar or Isostar 2 or Aluplast Ideal 8000 series aluminum clad uPVC windows and doors?
Thanks
Also now looking into Kneer Sud's alu clad AKF 700 series, they seem to be the first EU brand I've seen using RAU-FIPRO (fiberglass reinforced uPVC). Any feedback about them or the others I've mentioned?
JM,
Alpen's "Tyrol Series" are built from RAU-FIPRO. We were one of the first US manufacturers to fabricate Rehau's GENEO Series 4700 that uses this profile. Since then, we've had our Tyrol Series (Geneo/Rau-Fipro) passive house certified by PHIUS and PHI.
Tyrol Tilt-Glide door also offers a perfect solution to your "small lift-slide door" design challenge (post #12 above). I've investigated this question on a number of occasions for clients seeking "pass through" windows for indoor-outdoor kitchens, and found that most introduced less-than-ideal sill conditions. It is tough to make a lift-slide or sliding glass door threshold look like it belongs as a window sill element.
The Tyrol Tilt-Glide door, by comparison, uses the same 3-3/8" deep perimeter master frame as our windows, so the "mini-door" sill and casing can replicate the same look as sills and casings on the rest of the windows in the house, and the same installation details (fin or anchor bracket, whichever you might choose). And, the Tilt-Glide door "Tilt" function is a unique feature not available on most sliding door systems.
If you haven't seen these doors in action yet, Rehau created a cool video showing the Tilt-Slide door operation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSpthGHEf-0
FYI, Logic/Pinnacle can't do windows for high elevation.
Hello JM, I'm curious, who did you end up selecting for your windows and how did things turn out? Thanks!